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Talking with the Dad of an Adolescent Menstruator with a Bleeding Disorder

Talking with the Dad of an Adolescent Menstruator with a Bleeding Disorder

Join us as we talk with Emil Wijnker, a dad of adolescent menstruators with bleeding disorders. Emil shares his experience of having a bleeding disorder and of being a dad of daughters with bleeding disorders. He offers some advice to other dads with adolescent menstruators with bleeding disorders.

Transcript
Speaker:

Okay.

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So I'd like to welcome everyone

this episode of the flow.

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Today I have a special guest with me.

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I've got Emil Wanker with me today and

I'm really pleased to have you here today.

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Thanks for coming Emil.

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So before we start, yeah, before we

start, why don't you tell me, tell the

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audience a little bit about who you are.

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So thank you, Natalie.

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My name is Emil Wanker.

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I am a former president of Hemophilia

Ontario and Recently elected president

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of the Canadian Hemophilia Society.

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I live with severe hemophilia A, and I'm

really excited to be joining the flow.

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I've watched the development of

Heroics very closely, and I'm so

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excited to take part and contribute.

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This is wonderful.

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Excellent.

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Well, I'm so glad that you're with us.

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Now, before we really get into our

topic, maybe you could tell us a

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little bit about your experience

of living with a bleeding disorder.

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Sure.

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I was diagnosed with severe

hemophilia A at 16 months old.

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As a teetering toddler, I

fell and I split my lip.

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Open on our living room coffee

table when it hadn't healed properly

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and was still bleeding after three

days, my parents figured something

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is amiss and they took me to the E.

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R.

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and where they got my diagnosis.

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Eventually we had no family

history of hemophilia at all.

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And so my diagnosis was a complete

surprise to my parents and who

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they themselves were recently.

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immigrants to Canada from Holland.

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So they had no extended

family to fall back on.

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And that made their experience

as, parents of a newly diagnosed

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child, especially difficult.

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I grew up within our bleeding

disorders community here in Ontario.

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I went to our summer camps where I

got to meet other boys who, who had

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the same condition as me and who were

experiencing similar issues as me.

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And I've experienced a wealth

of leadership opportunities and

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everything through my involvement

with the bleeding disorders community.

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So, in many respects, I'm very

grateful for my experience

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living with a bleeding disorder.

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It doesn't come without its drawbacks.

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I have an arthropic left elbow and

I have a very restrictive right hip.

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So I've certainly got some mobility

issues that are absolutely

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attributable to my bleeding disorder.

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But All in all, I consider it part of

me and I'm very grateful for everything

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all the good stuff that's come my way

through through my bleeding disorder.

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Yeah, and such a great

journey of community.

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Absolutely.

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Which is such a wonderful experience

that we hear so much through Humaphilia

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Ontario is that the community that so

many folks feel when they grow up in

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this community because, you know, it's

a smaller community and having that

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available to you is just such a benefit

when you're journeying through an

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experience that not everybody really

understands or knows much about.

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Absolutely, and my parents would be the

first ones to extol the virtues of that.

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I mean, considering they didn't have

their own extended family here in Canada

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to fall back on, they really leaned

into friendships and connections that

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they made with other parents of young

boys who were diagnosed with hemophilia

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around the same time as me, and made

lifelong friendships and connections

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with members of our community, and it

was a huge benefit to them to help them

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process dealing with my diagnosis and

learning all the ins and outs of raising

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a young boy with severe hemophilia.

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But at the end of the day, it's

relationships and connections,

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and they will be the first people

to say it's been a huge benefit.

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Absolutely So I mean, Emil, I've

had the pleasure of working with

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you through hemophilia Ontario, so I

know that you're a dad, but can you

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share how many Children you have if

any of them have a bleeding disorder?

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So I have three daughters who based

on basic hemophilia genetics are what

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are referred to as obligate carriers.

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So I knew that any daughters that

I would have if and when I had

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children, that they would all

inherit my hemophilia gene from me.

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So I was prepared with that

information prior to having my girls.

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I also have a son.

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Who does not have hemophilia.

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So I have four kids.

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My first three were daughters who all of

whom have hemophilia and my son does not.

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So as my understanding of how women are

affected by hemophilia kind of evolved

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throughout my youth, I understood

that women not only carried the gene

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which is what the term carrier kind

of implies, but I knew that women

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were affected by their hemophilia.

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So because I grew up

within this community.

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I was fortunate to have interacted with

women and girls who were affected by other

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bleeding disorders like Von Willebrand's

disease or other rare factor deficiencies.

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And I'd learned from them how their

bleeding disorder affected them,

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especially in ways that were different

from my own experience as a male.

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So when my daughters were born, first off,

I knew that they would have hemophilia.

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But I was determined to understand.

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And know as much as possible about

their condition so I could be

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as prepared as possible for how

it might impact them especially

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before they began to menstruate.

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So I advocated with my clinic really,

really directly to have their factor

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levels tested once they were born.

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And how do you think all that advocacy,

really, and all that knowledge,

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because you were obviously really

well prepared, how do you think

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that has helped both you and them?

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It's I mean, knowledge is power, right?

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So I think being able to ask questions

and and obtain as much information

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as possible as early on as possible

was really, really beneficial.

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I mean, I was fortunate enough to

have a positive open dialogue with

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my hemophiliac care nurse at the time

when I approached her initially about.

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Assessing my daughters for how

they were affected by hemophilia.

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She was somewhat skeptical and not because

she didn't want to, but because I think

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my request was outside of the normal

standard operating procedure at the time.

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We just, we weren't used to

testing girls for hemophilia and

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She eventually came on side and

ultimately joined me in advocating

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for the diagnosis of my daughters.

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And that's something I'm

very, very grateful for.

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But I recognize though that not

everyone has that same experience.

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I mean, for some people, I've heard

horror stories from other individuals

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who just Been climbing this constant

uphill battle and like, banging their

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head against the wall with people

just saying, no, no, we don't do that.

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And they're not interested in

investigating how girls like

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their daughters or even adult

women are impacted by a bleeding

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disorder, especially when it's 1.

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that old knowledge would tell people that

doesn't affect girls, like hemophilia.

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I mean, the old school of thought

was boys have hemophilia, girls are

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carriers, and that's where it ends.

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I mean, we know now that it's different,

and women are absolutely affected.

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If they carry the hemophilia

gene, it absolutely has an

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impact on their bleeding profile.

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And it varies wildly amongst women, which

is, I think, warrants even more attention.

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I think there's no one size fits

all to how your, Hemophilia gene is

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going to impact you as an individual

who bleeds, whether you're male or

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female, whether you menstruate or not.

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It's all different.

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So I think it's all worthy of

investigation, but it was a really

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interesting experience to go through

kind of seeing that initial resistance

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to well, well, no, we know their

carriers and that's all we need to

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know versus me saying, well, no, I

want to know how they're affected.

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Because ultimately, I'm very glad

that I did because my oldest daughter

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her factor levels tested at 32%.

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So, and that falls within the

diagnostic range for mild hemophilia.

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So that kind of blew my mind when I got

that result, because if she were a boy,

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it would have been a very straightforward

case of, yep, you're a hemophiliac.

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But since she was female, it

seemed like it was a peculiar case.

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It seemed like.

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It needed to be considered differently

which I was not having, it's like,

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the blood test shows we're within

the range for mild hemophilia.

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She's a mild hemophiliac.

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So, ultimately, I made the decision to

flat out refer to her as a hemophiliac and

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not a carrier because that's what she is.

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Right.

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My 2nd daughter, her factor levels

came out at 75%, which was really not

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surprising to us because she hasn't

really experienced many bleeding issues.

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So, to see her factor levels come

out at such a high range, which, like

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for the diagnostic criteria, falls

within the normal range for factor.

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Was not surprising at all, but

with my youngest daughter her

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factor levels came out at 50%.

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But, she is highly needlephobic.

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Like, very, very needle phobic.

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And the, the blood draw experience was

an extremely tense and stressful event.

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We know that the stress, that

stress releases stored factors

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in individuals who are capable

of producing their own factors.

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So, I strongly believe that her,

her 50 percent factor level was

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an artificially high reading.

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Because her bleed just based

on her bleeding profile.

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I mean, she constantly has bruises.

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She has nosebleeds all the time.

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So we're, we're going to be

pursuing further testing to try

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and get a more authentic assessment

of her status as a hemophiliac.

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I mean, we already know

that she is a hemophiliac.

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She has the genes.

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So we're just going to wait a little

longer and to try and get a more.

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Comprehensive picture of what her

situation actually is, but for all intents

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and purposes, we regard her as a bleeder

and we take the appropriate precautions.

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Right.

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And you made me think of something

when you were talking and you said how

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even for you, as knowledgeable as you

are, as experienced as you are met with

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resistance about getting testing done.

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Do you have any thoughts for other

parents who might be, cause, I mean,

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you raised, the point that you and

I know and are quite familiar with

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and I'm sure lots of other parents

experience that when they want the

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testing done, they're often refused.

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So any thoughts for

other parents like that?

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I think my situation was really

supported by the fact that I had

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an ongoing positive dialogue with

my clinic team in the first place.

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And so it wasn't, a cold call.

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I wasn't just going into saying,

hi, stranger, please test this

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patient who you don't know.

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I mean, I had a great relationship with my

nurse and I had, I had done my homework.

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I had done the research.

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I knew the facts and I could support

my case for advocating for that draw.

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But that's not to say that other

patients don't, but I think it was,

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it was all part of that, that little

small ecosystem of our relationship.

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Like, my nurse understood that

this wasn't me on a whim asking

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for something and I had really kind

of come, I had made a case for it.

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Ultimately though, I'm very grateful

that my clinic team was open to it.

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I think.

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If you're lucky to have a clinic

team who is open to it it's a

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much easier hill to climb than some

clinic teams who just don't, who

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won't entertain the possibility.

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And, and I think that there's some

work within our, our larger community

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to try and add or educate tho those

clinicians or the clinic staff to

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have a bit more of an open mind.

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I certainly see that tide turning.

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I really do.

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So I hope that as the community develops

a better understanding of how women

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are affected by bleeding disorders.

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And I mean, my experience

is limited to hemophilia.

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That is my personal lens that from

which I'm approaching this situation.

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I mean, I have hemophilia.

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I know that my daughters have hemophilia.

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So my perspective is from a hemophilia

space, but that doesn't mean it doesn't

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apply to other bleeding disorders.

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Either any woman who is affected or any

person who menstruates who is affected

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by a bleeding disorder deserves the same

care and attention from their clinic team.

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But I think as our understanding

as a community evolves.

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And we develop a better understanding

on how women are affected and the.

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Value of understanding women's situations

with their bleeding disorders and

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that comes with testing and, and

factor levels and, and all of that.

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Hopefully that tide will turn and we

will see less resistance on the part of

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clinic teams to get that testing done.

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I don't know if I have a magic bullet

or, a great solution to kind of, you

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know, Change the mind of a clinic who

has said no, we're not going to do that.

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I hope to see that eventually move along

well, and it's so dependent on so many

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factors, but it's great to sometimes

hear from a parent who actually made

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it happen because in so many instances

they're told no, they're told we'll wait.

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It's not necessary.

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Maybe when they can consent,

like all of those things.

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I will say.

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I did get the let's wait.

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I advocated as soon as my girls were born

and I got told, well, no, let's wait until

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they're closer to menstruating, which

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I'm not totally sure

how I feel about that.

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I feel, I almost wonder, like,

if it would have been better to

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just do it as a baby and just

know everything right off the hop.

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But I could see the argument for like,

really menstruation was What we were

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most concerned about knowing that that

was guaranteed bleeding episode that

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they were going to be experiencing.

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Eventually.

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I wanted to make sure that we were as

prepared for that as possible to make

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sure that things didn't go awry when

they didn't have to, if we could avoid

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any needlessly unpleasant situations

with with their menstruation, then let's

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get ahead of that as much as possible.

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But, I mean, reflecting back on

it, There really could not have

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been any harm in knowing earlier.

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I mean, what if they were in

a car accident as a toddler?

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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We should have been able to have that

information as early as possible.

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So I will say I did get

that from my clinic.

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Like it was a, well, no, let's

wait until they're a bit older.

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And I almost wonder too, If doing a

blood draw with my third, for example

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if we would have been able to maybe get

a better reading, really interesting

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understanding of needles and everything.

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Right?

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So, absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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And you are right.

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Like, that's what came to my mind.

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Is that for me, that actually doesn't

make sense in the sense of waiting to

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menstruation because what about an injury?

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What about an accident?

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What about all these things?

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And especially in the case where you said.

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For two of your Children, like

that percentage is really low.

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Right.

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So that wouldn't have been

a great time to find out.

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Right.

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So you raise a really, really good point.,

and also I really liked what you brought

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up even around the needle phobia, like

as a younger, you know, as a baby, there

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wouldn't have been, it's not a pleasant

experience anyways, in that situation, but

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not the same needle phobia at that time.

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So there's a, there's a lot of that.

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Kind of going back and

forth in that debate.

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So it is interesting to hear some

of those perspectives around really

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advocating and what it took to

get it actually done in that case.

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And even for you, you

still got the let's wait.

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Right.

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So that's interesting.

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That's really interesting.

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So I was also thinking, I was going to ask

you about in the situation with yourself,

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like you, you reference daughters.

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And of course, I'll be inclusive.

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I'll say for any dads who have

adolescence with the potential to

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menstruate with bleeding disorders,

do you think it's a unique position

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to be a dad in that situation?

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Oh, absolutely.

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Well, and in my household,

I'm very outnumbered.

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I mean, I have a wife and three daughters.

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My son and I, we are

outnumbered two to one.

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For people who menstruate

and people who don't.

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in our household.

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So are people with the

potential to menstruate?

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I should say.

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Because my youngest daughter actually

hasn't started her period but it's coming.

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We're very, very near.

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We can tell.

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The hormone cycle is quite evident.

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I will say.

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I really think, like, as a dad of

adolescent girls going through that,

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I try very much to just be open and

honest and not shy away from any of the

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period talk or any of the discussion

regarding their menstruation because

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for me, I regard it as a bleed.

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I see it as a bleed.

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And so having grown up with a bleeding

disorder myself, bleeds were a big deal.

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You took bleeds very seriously.

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And so I know that my girls are going to

be having a bleed every four ish weeks.

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And so I'm going to take that seriously.

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I want to make sure that everything

is, is on the up and up, that they have

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whatever supplies that they need or

they have that they're feeling okay.

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And maybe at the end of their period

that they're not completely wiped out.

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I mean, Since we were able to obtain

the diagnosis from my oldest before

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she started menstruating we were

prepared We had tranexamic acid for

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her to take because we know that that

helps with with mucosal bleeding.

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We had ferritin She was prescribed

ferritin to help make sure that

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her iron levels didn't drop and

she wasn't completely drained

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at the end of her period.

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She does experience a heavy flow.

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My wife has a heavy flow.

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So we were uber prepared for that

So we go through a lot of feminine

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hygiene products in our house but

we we are well stocked and we make

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sure that we have them on hand.

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We're as prepared as we possibly can we

have very open and honest conversations

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just about periods and flow and

bleeding because, like, our daughters,

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they know, like, they still have that

teenage, ew, dad, ew, my period, like.

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They still have that reaction, but

they know that if I'm asking about

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their period, it's because I have a

genuine concern about their bleeding.

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They know that that's the lens from

which I'm approaching that conversation.

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I don't have this morbid fascination

with their period or anything.

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Like, I'm concerned about bleeding.

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And they know that

that's a big deal for me.

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So, we have really open and

honest conversations about it.

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It's not taboo I mean, it's not

to say that it's like dinnertime

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conversation or anything, but right.

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But we do talk about it probably way

more than a regular family would.

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Well, that's actually

what I was just thinking.

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I thought it was interesting when

you said, you view it as a bleed.

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Now, as you said, in your

house, you're very comfortable.

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You're coming at it from a different lens.

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You have no issues with menstruation.

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But there is a lot of menstrual

stigma in our culture, in our

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institutions, all over the place.

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So not every dad would probably find

themselves, in fairness, Super comfortable

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with that conversation because they

may have been raised that it is taboo.

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It's not to be discussed.

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It's not anything that you talk about

with adolescent menstruators or those

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with the potential to menstruate.

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And when you said you kind of come at

it from a place of this is a bleed.

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Do you think like in terms of

getting over that menstrual stigma?

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sort of barrier for other dads.

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Do you think that would be a

good lens with which to view it?

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Like just take the menstrual stigma

out of it and just view it as a bleed

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or do you have any thoughts on that?

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I absolutely do.

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I think that's kind of helped me to

rationalize it for myself because I mean,

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I grew up with that same tabooness, or

that same stigma surrounding menstruation.

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Like I was raised with that.

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I'm concerned for my daughter's welfare.

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And so that's where I'm coming

at it from a parent and Because I

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myself am a hemophiliac and I have

just been, it's been ingrained into

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me to make sure that you manage

bleeding properly and everything.

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I just, that was the most appropriate

mind frame to put it into for myself.

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And I think it makes a lot of sense.

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But I think talking about menstruation

with your daughters should be

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akin to like talking with your

kids about brushing their teeth.

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Right?

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Like, it's not something you're going

to bring up all the time, but if you are

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bringing it up, it's probably because

you're concerned about it a little bit,

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or you want to remind them that, you know,

this, we've got to make sure that we're

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taking care of this properly because of

such and such and such wellness reasons.

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Right.

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It should be the same

thing for other periods.

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Like, you want to make sure that

they're, you're bringing it up regularly.

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That is just a topic of conversation

related to their wellness.

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And for adolescents who menstruate or

who have the propensity to menstruate,

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it is part of their wellness.

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It is an aspect of their wellness.

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it isn't the case for my son, but

it certainly is for my daughters.

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So I think it's just another facet of

that conversation that We just add in

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and we've normalized it in our household.

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And I think the more proactive you can be

in normalizing it, the easier it becomes.

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I mean, was I comfortable going into the

grocery store and buying three boxes of

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pads the first couple of times I did it?

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Absolutely not.

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I mean, societal stigma

still feels very, very real.

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But nowadays, I don't care at all.

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I invite the questions, so.

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But it's neat that you said that because,

you know, you present as very comfortable

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with the topic, which maybe other dads

wouldn't even be able to relate to, but

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I like that you said, Actually, in the

beginning, I wasn't comfortable either.

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I wasn't comfortable going

into the grocery store.

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That conversation wasn't

exactly comfortable for me.

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And I, I like that because what you're

saying is it wasn't always this easy.

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There was a time it was really awkward,

but you were able to kind of work

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:

through it and working through it

was really about continuing to do it.

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:

100%.

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It absolutely is a journey and

It's when you go through together.

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It's not, this is not some personal

journey of self discovery that I've gone

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:

on with regard to my daughter's periods.

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This is some, this is a journey we've

gone on together and like we've been

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:

traveling or we were traveling when my

second daughter got her first period

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:

and I will say we were underprepared.

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So we were going into this random

grocery or a drugstore in this community.

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We've never been into before.

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:

And it was me going in there to buy her

products and everything because we needed

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:

to make sure that we had what we needed.

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:

But it's been a journey we've gone

on together as a family, and we, it

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:

started with some really open and honest

conversations, which I will recognize

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that not everyone might be comfortable

having right off the hop, so I, I

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probably did have a bit of a leg up,

but, like, to my point earlier, like,

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it's not to say that I was as comfortable

as I am now, right from the get go.

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Absolutely not.

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Yeah, that's fair.

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And I think it's helpful

for other dads to know that.

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:

Yeah.

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So how do you think other dads could best

support their children or adolescents with

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bleeding disorders, especially around the

potential to menstruate and menstruating?

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How do you think they

can best support them?

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I think having those open and honest

conversations And just trying to

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:

break down some of that teenager

stigma or teenage reactions.

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Cause the first time any dad's gonna

bring that up with their daughter, it's

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:

probably gonna be like, Ugh, dad, why

are you talking about this or whatever?

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Like, you're gonna get that

reaction from your teen or preteen.

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I mean, my daughter started at 11, so it

was a bit of a different conversation.

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:

But, it's So I think just having those

conversations and then not backing down

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because if you get that comment, that

reaction from your teen or your preteen,

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it's very easy as a parent to just

be like, fine, talk with your mother

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:

right.

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:

No, you, let me know when you're

ready to talk about it, which there

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:

is a time and a place for that, but

I, I did not give up that easily.

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And I don't think all parents should.

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:

It was something I just kept

revisiting and kept coming back

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:

to and just bringing it up very.

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:

Openly and frankly it wasn't a

whispered conversation or anything

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:

like, Hey, let's talk about your period.

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So I noticed you're, you're

in this point of your cycle.

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Are, do you have enough products

on hand or I took out the garbage.

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:

I noticed you're in the middle of

everything is how is your bleeding?

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Is everything going?

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:

All right.

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:

Like, just bringing it up as naturally

as possible, which granted for most

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:

dads is going to be a huge thing

to overcome for themselves, too.

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:

But I think that's 1 of the best

ways that you can support your

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:

adolescent menstruators is just by.

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:

Showing them that you're in it with them.

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:

No, you're not menstruating alongside

with them, but show them that

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:

they are not alone in experiencing

what they're experiencing.

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:

They have a support system.

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:

They have someone who is concerned and

who is aware of what's going on with them.

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:

Even though you might not be

experiencing it personally

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:

yourself, just showing to them that.

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:

You know that they're going through

something and you're there for them.

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:

You're willing to support them.

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:

However, you possibly can.

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:

Hopefully they're receptive to that.

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:

And I think that that is a

great way to support them.

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:

I think for my situation and for

other fathers with a bleeding

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:

disorder who know that they're going

to be passing that down to their

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:

daughters, whether it's von Willebrand

disease, or whether it's hemophilia.

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:

Knowing that I was going to

have daughters, I advocated.

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:

So if you are a hemophiliac and you

are having children, know that your

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:

daughters will have hemophilia as well.

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:

And when you do have a daughter,

take those steps and advocate for

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:

your daughter with your clinic team.

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:

And maybe push a little hard to get

an earlier diagnosis but just try

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:

and get as much testing as you can.

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:

Just gather that knowledge

because knowledge is power.

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:

Yeah, any information you can gather

with respect to your child's bleeding

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:

disorder will help you in the long run.

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:

It can only benefit you.

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:

Which is great advice really for all

dads with adolescent menstruators, right?

463

:

Having that conversation and having that

support, is such a great thing for all,

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:

but particularly if that adolescent also

has a bleeding disorder and it is a little

465

:

more reminiscent of dealing with a bleed.

466

:

And I kind of like how you framed

that because although It's not maybe

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:

a bleed like you said you would have

it's still a monthly bleed that is

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:

typically more excessive than an

average menstrual period, right?

469

:

So, I liked that way of just kind of

journeying through making it really frank.

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:

It whispers or embarrassing.

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:

And I also liked your thoughts around

like at first they are going to say,

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:

Hey, Ew, I'm not having this conversation

with you, right, because it's not just

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:

our families that create that stigma.

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:

It's everywhere.

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:

So they've got to overcome some of that

in their house, nothing to do with you.

476

:

So I like that you're like,

okay, I'm not forcing myself on

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:

it, but I'm gently revisiting.

478

:

Yeah, going back going.

479

:

You know what?

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:

This is a concern.

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:

I want to support.

482

:

I want to make sure everything's okay.

483

:

Let's have this frank conversation and

kind of just gently sort of going back

484

:

into it where it sounds like in your case,

eventually they've just gotten used to it.

485

:

Yeah, very much.

486

:

And I mean, there's a distinction.

487

:

I think just hearing you say back to

me, I think there's a distinction to be

488

:

made to between discretion and stigma.

489

:

And so I think you can still be discreet

about dealing with with menstruation.

490

:

And because I think.

491

:

Any teenager is going to want that

and appreciate that, but you can

492

:

still have those conversations,

but be discreet about it.

493

:

But like I said, like, it's not

typically dinner conversation, but

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:

it's something we're going to bring up.

495

:

And yeah, I'm not going to do it in the

middle of the grocery store with them,

496

:

or I'm not going to do it with, like, in

front of their friends or anything, but I

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:

am going to revisit those conversations.

498

:

Because as a parent, you have

conversations all the time with

499

:

your child, and those opportunities

for those discreet conversations.

500

:

Conversations come up and I, but

I think there is is a valuable

501

:

distinction to be made there because.

502

:

I think it's still more discretion because

it is after all a personal experience.

503

:

Right?

504

:

So I'm not going to put it on blast.

505

:

I'm not going to broadcast it out

to the world, but I'm going to

506

:

make sure that you know that I'm

there for you and I'm supportive.

507

:

And what have you found it easiest

to have those conversations, just

508

:

as an example, just or in the car.

509

:

I mean, I'm often driving my kids

to various activities or whatever.

510

:

So we have a lot of one on one time.

511

:

So our lifestyle just lends

itself really well to that.

512

:

But yeah, evenings.

513

:

Like when you're kind of just kind

of slowing down and getting ready

514

:

for for sleep and everything and

just kind of throwing it out there.

515

:

Be like, hey, everything.

516

:

All right.

517

:

I'm getting ready for bed or whatever

or or 1st thing in the morning.

518

:

I mean, it's usually me and 1

of my daughters in the kitchen.

519

:

1st thing in the morning.

520

:

I'm making coffee and she's pouring

yogurt and it's just the 2 of us.

521

:

So those little moments that you can

steal where it's just the 2 of you.

522

:

And then I'll relay whatever concerns or

anything relevant, I'll share it back with

523

:

my wife as well, because we are a team.

524

:

Yeah.

525

:

And we approach it together, but even

if it's me that has that conversation,

526

:

I'll share it with her, and likewise,

she'll share things with me, because

527

:

she knows that I'm very proactive when

it comes to my daughter's bleeding.

528

:

So, insofar as my wife is probably much

more the expert on the menstruation

529

:

specific side of it than I am, we share

that information, and because we're both

530

:

coming at it from very different angles.

531

:

Right, so, Emile, last question that

I had for you is, do you have any

532

:

other advice that you would give dads?

533

:

With adolescent menstruators or

with the potential to menstruate

534

:

with a bleeding disorder.

535

:

Any other advice to throw out for them?

536

:

I think like I've kind of already

mentioned this as well, but I

537

:

think think of it as a bleed.

538

:

I think if you yourself have a

bleeding disorder, and you've kind

539

:

of been like, trained throughout your

life to take bleed seriously, and

540

:

you got it, you develop that spidey

sense for yourself and everything.

541

:

You're not going to have a spidey

sense for your bleed as a menstruator,

542

:

but it is still a bleeding episode.

543

:

And so if you would take it seriously

for yourself, if you were bleeding that

544

:

much, take it seriously for your child.

545

:

So if you know that they are going to

be experiencing that monthly bleed,

546

:

Think of it, come at it from that angle.

547

:

I think it makes it a lot easier to

approach those conversations, especially

548

:

for men who aren't used to talking

openly or frankly about menstruation.

549

:

Don't think of it as a period,

but think of it as a bleed.

550

:

I think that's really been helpful but

ultimately normalizing that conversation.

551

:'s no reason for us to, to in:

to have this stigma around menstruation.

552

:

It happens, it's It's part of the

reproductive cycle for humans.

553

:

It's necessary.

554

:

It's normal.

555

:

Let's get over it and just deal with it.

556

:

Yeah, no, yeah, for sure.

557

:

Well, thank you so much, Emil.

558

:

This was really helpful.

559

:

And I think it's really interesting

to get the perspective of a dad

560

:

for, you know, everybody to sort of

hear what that looks like, what that

561

:

experience is, how to help support.

562

:

How to help prepare.

563

:

And I think you had a really a lot of

really rich contributions around what

564

:

folks can really pull from as parents.

565

:

But also if you were an adolescent

menstruator or someone with the potential

566

:

to menstruate listening and maybe

wanting to take some takeaways from that.

567

:

So thanks so much for

doing this with me today.

568

:

No problem, Natalie.

569

:

It's my pleasure.

570

:

Thank you for having me.